On Tuesday, April 17, we will be finishing up Jeremiah and talking about Ezekiel. Please remember to bring with you the "choral reading" sheets from Jeremiah and Lamentations. For Thursday, April 19, please read through my study questions on the problem of evil and then Chapters 1-5, 19 and 37-42 of the Book of Job and Chapters 1-7 and 12 of the Daniel. Add your response to the prompt below:
Both Daniel and Job deal with the problem of evil. If the world is the creation of an all-powerful and loving God, why is there so much evil in the world? The two books approach the problem from different perspectives. Pick here one verse from each book that seems to you to be particularly important either in helping explain the problem of evil or in showing how a good man should live in a world full of evil.
Daniel 9:19- O Lord, listen! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, hear and act! For your sake, O my God, do not delay, because your city and your people bear your Name." Daniel talks to the Lord his God for help. Daniel shows his dependence on God. He is a man in a bad time and bad place. He shows that he and all people should depend on God and the world will be a better place.
ReplyDeleteJob 42:3 "Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know." Job acknowledges that he does not know God's plan for the world or for him as an individual. He like Daniel chooses to trust God and not completely in himself. People and this world may be evil but God is good and he plans to help those people. -Zach Kuhlman
Job seems to base the problem of evil on God. In Job, God is so proud of Job. When Satan appears he questions Job's devotion. Then, God allows Satan to torture Job. 2:6 explains this well. "So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the soles of his foot unto his crown." This clearly states it was God, not evil itself. If God says no then there would be no evil. So man should really just try to live the best life they can. It is merely God testing us.
ReplyDeleteI dunno if this is a way the good person is suppose to live, but 4:27, "Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by showing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquility." Even in a world full of evil the poor need help. A man should try to help those people regardless of what is happening in the world.
The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away;
ReplyDeletemay the name of the LORD be praised.”
22 In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.
At first Job acted the way he should have, he didnt question or curse God even though some terrible things had happened to him as he knew it was all part of a greater plan and that God works in mysterious ways.
10 Now when Daniel learned that the decree had been published, he went home to his upstairs room where the windows opened toward Jerusalem. Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before.
When Daniel's religious beliefs were being hindered, he did not retaliate with violence or hateful words or curse anyone, he just simply continued to practice his religious beliefs and stand up for what he believes in. I believe this is how a good person should stand up to evil things is just simply put faith into what you believe in and stand up for it.
R. Casey Oberle
Job 1:21 Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised.
ReplyDeleteJob is showing that one should always accept that God is in control and he allows evil to happen for a reason. It's all his plan.
Daniel 6:16 Then the king commanded, and they brought Daniel, and cast him into the den of lions. Now the king spake and said unto Daniel, Thy God whom thou servest continually, he will deliver thee.
After praying to God and being faithful to him, God protected Daniel from the lions and from the evil of the king's wisemen and it's a great example that you should always maintain a relationship and that will always deliver you one way or another.
Daniel(12:3)- "Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever." This verse is saying that those who believe in the words of God and not guide people away from the Lord will shine in the end and forever.
ReplyDeleteJob(42:2-6)- In these lines it is referring to not question God and his tests what he is giving to you and for you to stay humble and true to God, and that God is giving a test to an individual for a reason to better that person as an individual and help others if they encounter the same test.
In Job 42:6, Job "abhors [himself] and repent[s] in dust and ashes." This is what a good man should do. If one falls short of God and his will, he should repent and ask for forgivenes. We see in Job 42:9 that the Lord accepts Job after he repents. While one should avoid evil in the first place, in a world where evil is inevitable, one must be able to repent.
ReplyDeleteDan 1:8 shows how Daniel refused to defile himself with the temptation of the king's meat. This is a good example of how even if someone in power tempts one, they should still be true to the laws of the Lord.
I like Job 2:10, in how to respond to a life full of evil. "But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips." Even though in a matter of minutes, all of Job's life came crashing down around him, he had such a steadiness. It's like he had known God to be good, so he wasn't going to turn his back on him the second things were less than ideal.
ReplyDeleteAnd I guess for Daniel, I like the advice of all still being held accountable for their actions, like seen in 12:e. "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Makes me want to live, no matter what happens in my life, in a way that leads to everlasting life.
Job 2:9 "Then his wife said to him, 'Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God, and die.' But he said to her, 'You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?' In all this Job did not sin with his lips."
ReplyDeleteThis part of Job where after the death of Job's family and he is weeping, Satan and God let them afflict Job even more, and even with his wife's encouragement he still does not give up and die. Job instead holds his faith steady. The piece of this verse that really outlines the problem with evil for me. When Job's wife told him that he is foolish to believe that even though he does not do any evil deeds he is still punished. Neither of them know this is a test of faith for Job, and yet Job still holds fast and does not curse God. Why does Job stay his course and not curse God, even though he has done nothing wrong to deserve his wrath? The idea is that evil can strike anywhere and anyone and it is not always the persons bad deeds that have that happen. It makes it easier for people in a grieving process to keep their faith by thinking that evil is random and can hit anyone. Because at times of grievance a person may think that they do not deserve their loss of a loved one, and this is the problem with evil it is completely random and can strike anyone, anywhere, anytime, no matter the circumstances of ones afflictions.
Throughout Job, from what I got out of it, is that if you fear and revere God, then good things will happen. It seems that evil only happened when God allowed it to, and that was the result of Satan's meddling. Job's friend, Eliphaz even reassured him in chapter 4 to stick with the goodness of his heart, and not to falter from God. It is a reminder to live a good life in a not-so-good world.
ReplyDelete4:7 ~ Remember, I pray thee, who [ever] perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?
4:8 ~ Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
In Daniel, I would have to agree with Casey, that 6:10 shows a great example of how Daniel defied the decree set by Darius, and perservered in praying to God.
I could also mention that Daniel could have easily not warned Nebuchadnezzar about the coming time when he would be cast out into the wild, but he did tell him. (chapter 4) He even hoped that Nebuchadnezzar would repent, which showed compassion on his part, considering Daniel was uprooted by this tyrant in the first place. I think this is a great quality to have, to be able to forgive and show compassion to someone who wrong you and/or your people.
Side note:
I think it was interesting, that as a result of both the incidents of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego surviving the furnace (chapter 3), and Daniel surviving the lions den (chapter 6), both Nebuchadnezzar and Darius had a change of heart and revered God, and passed decrees to fear and revere God as well.
2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
ReplyDelete-This seems to be a direct hint to the Jewish people that they must all be prepared to stick together. It seems Daniel is explaining that the kingdom of God comes from within and that kingdom is stronger than any existing Kingdom on earth. This is hope in the face of bad things to come.
I can't seem to pick any one verse from the book of Job. While the story seems to be very interesting and is aiming at a point "keep your faith in god no matter what". It just does not make much sense to me. Honestly, it would appear that God did all of these terrible things to Job to prove a bet with Satan. I never could justify gods actions in this story. It just does not add up at all. Of course the message says you must keep hope and faith in god, just as Daniel said.
Tyler Munson
ReplyDeleteJob 1-18 where his children are killed and he says God be praised is strange. If his kids are dead don't you think he would be a little bit disheartened. Evil things happen in the world and man cannot stop it so Job has come to this conclusion and made his decision to stay fateful to god.
I think that Job 1:12 can give us an idea of why there is evil in the world. It doesn't describe how it started, but it does show us how God can even use evil for his purposes. In this verse the Devil comes to God and asks his permission to torment Job. God allows this in order to show Job's faithfulness. By reading this I can see that even the Devil is under God's dominion and can't do anything without God allowing it. And the fact that bad things still happens tells me that God is giving us trials that he knows can strengthen our faith by forcing us to put our trust in him when we cannot defend ourselves.
ReplyDeleteIn Daniel I had trouble coming up with a specific verse. Instead I just get the feeling that no matter what happens to us, either good or evil, God is watching over us. The fiery furnace is one example of this. Shadrach Meshach and Abednego were threatened with death but still stood up for their God, and in the end he saved them despite Nebuchadnezzar's best efforts. This tells me that God will always be with me.
John Rawerts
Personally I can't see or don't believe there could be an answer to the problem of evil. If God is all powerful and all good then evil wouldn't exist. But there is a phrase that I think can be taken away from the book of Job that has meaning in or out of religious text.
ReplyDelete"Shall we indeed accept good from God, and shall we not accept adversity?"
This statement gives us a better way to think about our lives. We accept the world when things go our way, but we expect that it will always work out our way also. "It will work out in the end." Only if you work through that adversity to make it work out for you. Otherwise the adversity is going to walk all over you and decide your life for you.
This statement shows how a good person lives in a world filled with evil. They work through it, hoping that if they work through the adversity that life will end up in their favor.
Job 4:3-4 Behold, thou hast instructed many, and thou hast strengthened the week hands. Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees.
ReplyDeleteIn these verses Eliphaz tells Job that he used to be someone to look up to, but now he is not. He is giving in instead of persevering. The way Job used to be showed how good men should live in an evil world. When others were down he encouraged them. And in 1:5 Job sacrificed burnt offerings unto the Lord on behalf of his wicked children. Even though evil dwelled in his children, Job was still righteous and cared about others.
Job 5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:
In this part of Job, Eliphaz gives some good advice. This is how a good man should live. Good men make mistakes, but with the Almighty there to correct you, you can easily get back on the right track. It would be hard living life without feedback. If you fancy yourself as ‘good’ would you want to know when you’ve done something ‘bad?’
Daniel is a great man and through his book we see just how great he is. He shows how a good man should live in a world full of evil when, no matter what, he praises and follows God. I’m sure plenty have said it, but in verse 1:8 it says: But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king’s meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself. Daniel didn’t know that God brought him into favor with the prince of the eunuchs; he just decided to ask him so that he could stay true to his Lord.
The story of Shadrach, Meschach, and Abed-nego is very powerful in the book of Daniel. Their actions definitely show how a good man should live in a world full of evil. When Nebuchadnezzar commands that at a certain time everyone should worship his golden statue they don’t and that is very honorable. They were not going to abandon their God just to live. And in return their God did not abandon them in their time of need. :)
25 He said, “Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.”
ReplyDeleteI think this is a great verse really talking about how great god's power is and what he can do against evil.
3 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”
And here God uses the illustration of a man to defeat Satan. If God can use someone who is no special person just another regular guy, its obvious how much God is in control and overpowering he is over Satan. I think that both relate to how powerful God is and how he can take anything or anyone and turn it into something for his glory.
Job 2:3, "Then the Lords said to Satan, 'Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on eath like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without an reason." I think that God does the talking for Job in this verse on how a good man should live in a world of evil. Job trusts and respects God's plan. He refuses to allow Satan to have a foothold in his life even after he faces evil attack, and he maintains his integrity. Job says himself (1:21) "...Naked I came from my mother's womb and naked I will depart. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praised." He doesn't blame God for wronging him, he is a man firm in his faith.
ReplyDeleteDaniel 3:17, "If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it, and he will rescue us from your hand, O king. But even if he does not, we want you to know. O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up." I think this verse in a way answers both the problem of evil and how a good man should live in a world full of evil. These three men were not about to worship an idol that the king had set up. They believed in the One True God, and they knew that even God chose to not save them from the fire God's plan is perfect and their faith in Him would not change. My study Bible has an interesting statement about this verse that I think says it well, "If God always rescued those who were true to him, Christians would not need faith. Their religion would be a great insurance policy, and there would be lines of selfish people ready to sign up." What kind of trust would that be if we knew that being a Christian meant life would be easy? Through sorrow and difficult trials we are called to greater love and faith in God.
For me in Daniel 2:28 "Then Nebuchadnezzar said, “Praise be to the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, who has sent his angel and rescued his servants! They trusted in him and defied the king’s command and were willing to give up their lives rather than serve or worship any god except their own God."
ReplyDeleteI think it is a great verse because these 3 men were put into a fire to be tested and they passed the test because of there trust in God
for Job I choose 3:20 and 21 "20 "Why is light given to him that is in misery, and life to the bitter in soul, 21 who long for death, but it comes not, and dig for it more than for hid treasures"
to me this seems that job really questions the thought of god being right and great and that really the seeds of despair in gods justice are planted
jason schumacher
The verse in Job would be 37:5, "God's voice thunders in marvelous ways; he does great things beyond our understanding." For this verse, God is all powerful, and everything that he does has a reaason behind it. He does not create evil for evil's sake, but as punishment for something or to guide someone in the right direction.
ReplyDeleteFor Daniel, 7:22, "My God sent his angel, and he shut the mouths of the lions. They have not hurt me, because I was found innocent in his sight. Nor have I ever done any wrong before you, O king." This shows that God's judgement can create evil, if someone is good they will not have evil.
In regards to the problem of evil, chapter 34:18-19 sums up the loving God vs. evil happenings dilema. In this passage, Eli'hu says, "...who says to a king, "Worthless one,' and to nobles, 'Wicked man'...". Job is having the toughest time figuring out why a man as upright as himself could have such hardship brought into his life. This passage, in my opinion, brings it all together. A king, by most, is considered just ESPECIALLY when he doesn't favor nobility over the poor. A king should bring order to both. What Job is mad about is therefor is the opposite of this logic. This point, along with the realization that NO one is completely blameless in the sight of the Lord, and His incomprehensible powers, finally brings Job around to 'repend in dust and ashes'. This book really puts things into perspective and tackles a fundamental question vital to the Christain faith.
ReplyDeleteIn the book of Daniel, it is a different story. Daniel gets into predicaments because of his ability to interpret dreams, but escapes these punishments. "My God sent his angle and shut the lions' mouths, and they have not hurt me...(6:22)". He, at this point, has escaped being torn to peices by lions on King Darius order. In this book, for the most part, God actually protects Daniel from the evils of man and fate by physically intervening, whereas in the book of Job, He deliberately lets many bad situations happen to him. These two books possess opposite situations that reflect God's everlasting supremacy.
What is interesting between these two men is they both fear, love and trust God. They are both considered Godly men. Yet Daniel is sent into the King and gets thrown into the lions den for doing what God commanded. Poor Job is under a curse from hell, and God lets the devil have his fun. Not once did Job curse God, although he came close in chapter three when he cursing the day he was born.
ReplyDeleteBoth Men take a different angle but the message is clear. God is the only one with all the power in the world. He can open doors and shut them all for the greater glory.